the chances of america going off the cliff are at least 30%? >> i agree. the president made no concessions at all. the problem that he has, above all, we're talking like accountants here, what he needs above all is economic growth. 3% to 4% growth. that's what carried reagan and clinton in their second terms. >> i agree with paul gigot. americans voted decisively for fair-share taxes on the riches, protecting medicare. americans want growth and investment. you can't get growth and investment in spending cuts. i think part of the problem we're having, george, is the fundamental assumptions overriding this entire discussion. senator murray said that we have a big debt and deficit problem, no, we don't. we have a big public investment and jobs problem. we're not greece. austerity, if you believe in evidence based in politics and economic, you look look at what's going on in europe, austerity, american-style in this country, has led to economic pain, has led to killing growth. killing growth. >> wait a minute. it's my turn on this. >> debt and deficit. >> what